I hope this happens and I hope there is no coup this time or it is thwarted.

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May Bolsonaro eat eternal shit in hell 🙌

@Fenix@lemmygrad.ml
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What are you all opinions in Lula? As a Brazilian, I have perceived Lula doing mostly class-conciliation instead of class-war. While I agree that his government were responsible for huge advances, I can’t help but wish he was more radical, but I think that may be due to that a huge part of the population is reactionary.

Every government that has tried to do class-conciliation politics were ditched by the Brazilian bourgeoisie (with support from the US most of the time) and Lula was no exception.

I wrote a Gigapost about it but it is really big and, just in case you dont wanna read it all, here is a quick rundown:

Lula doing mostly class-conciliation instead of class war

Yeah, thats pretty much it, after he announced fucking Alckmin as his vice it was pretty clear this would be his line. I think pretty much exactly what you said.

I do think his opposition against Petrobras privatization is based tho. The problem is, class conciliation is doomed to fail. That’s even the reason why PCB is lauching their own candidate, even though they don’t have enough support: the idea is to introduce a truly radical discourse to help shape political opinion.

You may have heard about Jones Manoel, I think that (if you have not) it might be worthy to watch his videos on youtube talking about PT and elections, they are the absolute best in my opinion.

Tldr; I think Lula right now is the best option we have. He is going to buy us precious time by slowing down the bourgeoisie attack and allow us to build up strength.

PCB vs PCdoB? Which one is better? I know PCdoB is much bigger and supports Lula while PCB is very small and doesnt.

I think PCB is “better”. Here is why: PCB was pretty relevant back in the 20th century, and they had to fight really hard, much part of it’s existance it was in a illegal way. PCdoB was born due to an internal disagreement in PCB, that they accused to be following a revisionist line. So they split up and PCdoB did a lot of based things, like doing guerrillas against the dictatorship.

After the redemocratization, they have mostly supported PT, even though they criticize their economic policies. This year they are 100% onboard with Lula, including the class-conciliation stuff, bc they argue it is important to defeat Bolsonaro.

PCB is not against PT and does kinda support them, but they understand that class conciliation is doomed to fail. Not only that, defeating Bolsonaro means defeating his ultraliberal policies too, and PT doesn’t seem to want to revert all of the policies of the last years, so the idea is that PCB will lauch their own candidate (even though they are a small party today and probably wont win) to introduce more radical ideas in the political mainstream discourse. Things like statization of all state enterprises that were privatized, reduced working hours and the end of all austerity policies.

This means when class conciliation fails, this time we should have a relevant number of people supporting more radical policies, instead of supporting the liberal bullshit that plagued the country in the last few years.

Right now I think PCB is doing exactly what Brazil needs and they have a huge potential to grow, but I dont think PCdoB is following a horrendous path either, just one that is misguided. Time will tell us which one is doing things “right”, but I believe its PCB

@SaddamHussein24@lemmygrad.ml
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I understand that, but if you split the vote and Lula loses to Bolsonaro, then things will just get worse. Like for example (not the same thing but just to give an idea) imagine that the KPRF (Russian Communist Party) now instead of standing with the Putin government against US imperialism and aggression they were to openly oppose Putin. Sure, Putin does a lot of privatizations and such, but doing that just helps imperialism, by causing infighting in russian society/parties, weakening Russia and strenghtening the west. The way i see it, demands for more left wing policies should be made once Bolsonaro is defeated and the situation is more stable, through strikes and what not. Like i know PCBs candidacy wont make a difference because they are very small, but imagine they were big, just as or bigger than PCdoB, in that case i think it would be a very irresponsible thing to do.

I mean just watch what happened in France, Melenchon (left antiimperialist candidate) lost the 1st round of the presidential elections to Macron (neoliberal rightist) and Le Pen (far rightist) just short of 1% of vote. If all this small left parties such as the communists had been with him, he would have won. This is the problem i see with that.

Yeah I agree, but PCB is (unfortunately?) not big. So I think introducing radical discourse in these elections is a very good idea that wont really split votes. Unlike france Lula right now has a decent margin against Bolsonaro and its impossible for PCB to hurt Lula in anyway. Not only that but their focus is not in criticizing PT, but neoliberalism. That means they will be criticizing Bolsonaro together with PT but from a far left perspective most of the time.

If Lula goes to the 2nd round (I say this bc there is a chance that he will win in the 1st one lol) PCB will certainly support PT.

So yeah, in the french scenario you mentioned it would be a mistake doing this, but I think this is what Brazil needs right now.

EDIT: Also to defeat Bolsonaro we cant focus on election only. There is a lot going on right now and I dont think its impossible to gather large protests against him till the end of the year. This would certainly hurt his popularity even more

Fair enough, that makes sense.

You see, back on the day, before the coup, we haved one big party that was part of the International. But the sino soviet split happened, and one side, PCdoB, was supporting mao, china and anti-kruschevism, and PCB was supporting the USSR and destalinization. The dictatorship fucked up both parties, and now they are very different from decades ago, PCdoB is bigger and more favorable to an leftist coalition against reactionarys, but are mostly made by trotskytes and other fake leftists that dont really do much. PCB is considerably smaller, with basically no power whatsowhever, but are oppenlly stalinist and seem to be more well studied.

Im my opinion both parties are pretty bad, they are mostly submissive to PT and have no ambition at all, they have lost the touch with the majority pf the population, they need to get their shit together so they can be more influent.

I see, thanks! I did know the PCdoB were maoists and later became hoxhaists (i think), but after socialist Albania collapsed they became proPT MLs.

I dont know much about their transition to todays views but during the 60’s and 70’s they were maoists

IIRC they were maoists and became hoxhaists after the Sino Albanian Split. Then in the 90s when albanian socialism collapsed they became as they are now

I believe PCB is more Marxist-Leninist than PCdoB, PCdoB seems to promote more class-conciliation than class-war. The differences are way more than that, though:

https://pcb.org.br/portal2/580

(It’s in Portuguese, but you can translate it using DeepL)

Thanks! Will read later. I still think supporting Lula is the right choice tho. If we were against class conciliation, we wouldnt support Russia, Bolivia, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Iran and others. Right now the primary contradiction is antiimperialism, and i believe Lula is a committed antiimperialist. By opposing Lula, you are just making the imperialists work easier. As long as US imperialism isnt defeated, there wont be any socialism in Brazil (nor anywhere else), so i think supporting Lula is the right strategy.

This is mainly what PCdoB argues. I think its important to support Lula but we need a clear demarcation line pushing the discourse further left. It not like someone will hear PCB’s proposal and criticisms and vote for Bolsonaro

Thats not what i meant. I meant that PCB has their own presidential candidacy and that could split the vote and make Lula lose, such as happened in France with Melenchon. Their criticism is correct, its the strategy that i disagree

Oh I see. Honestly I dont think this much of a problem right now in Brazil’s case, but I understand what you meant now

I wrote a Gigapost about it but it is really big and, just in case you dont wanna read it all, here is a quick rundown:

I just want to thank your for your Gigapost, what an amazing resource! I didn’t find anything that dedicated to Brazil anywhere. Thank you again. I’m eager for part 2!

Lula has always been based with external policies and social policies, his economic policies are way too liberal though, I agree with exactly what you said. It seems to me that the Petrobras Lavajato was a huge factor for Bolsonaro’s election, which, of course, got help with help from the US. The chances of it being orchestrated for plunging Brazil into Bolsonaro seems way too likely to me.

Jones Manoel and the PCB is great!

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Thank you both for providing all this info about Brazil 🤩

I’m eager for part 2!

Thanks. I thought I would have finished it so far but I had a lot of personal things to deal with these days so it’s not ready yet

The chances of it being orchestrated for plunging Brazil into Bolsonaro seems way too likely to me.

We actually have proof of this and US interference

/r/GenZedong, but on Lemmygrad!

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